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Melinda and Emily, alternating: Welcome to Time to Gather, a podcast where women talk it through one story at a time so that we can all move towards more purposeful, integrated, and powerful lives together. I'm Melinda Bullen and I'm Emily Jennings, and we're two working, living, surviving, trying to thrive women living on two different coasts from two different generations with the same love for good conversation, curiosity, and connection. We’re imperfect, we're learning, and we are you. And we're so grateful you're here taking the time to gather with us today.

 

Emily: I think you go first.

 

Melinda: Oh right (laughing)! 

 

Emily: (Laughing) We’ll just look at each other for a few minutes.

 

Melinda: (laughing) Just stare at each other, blankly. Well, hi Emily!

 

Emily: Hey Melinda. 

 

Melinda: Good to see you. It’s episode 2 of our podcast. Can you believe it? 

 

Emily: Not really. Like the amount of like terror and enthusiasm I have for this every night beforehand is real (laughing). 

 

Melinda: (laughing) Yeah, it has. It's been a really fun experiment and experience and hopefully that enthusiasm, maybe less terror (laughing), comes through at the other end. But we're really glad you're back with us and, yeah, welcome to episode 2 of our first season. Emily and I are really excited to begin sharing with you what we see as our pretty standard format moving forward as we bring guests into this podcast space. And something you will learn about Emily and I, pretty much every time you're with us, is that we will never ask you to do something that we're not willing to do ourselves. We are such big believers in the experience, the vulnerability, the trust, the relationship that comes with this kind of territory and so we will always put ourselves in the situations that we ask you to. And so that means that I will be the first sort of guest on our podcast (regal trumpet sound). We are going to be asking our podcast guests moving forward to share a story that Emily and I will then sort of unpack with them. In this episode my story is featured. So here we go.

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Emily: So normally this is where we would share a little bit about our guests, but you all have access to that in the links below, so let me tell you about my experience with Melinda. She comes to this work and podcast with 17 years of experience in higher education and municipal work all focused on shifting deeply rooted inequities through individual learning and development and empowering groups to shift organizational culture. I met her while living in Portland and working together in Portland. And that's where I saw her first-hand run and boldly pilot programs that create deep connection between people and create this like ripple effect. This indescribable ripple effect of change across the board. Like she plants these seeds that you just have no idea how they're going to grow and change the world over time in this really powerful way. I would say it wasn't immediate an immediate connection. We worked together for a while and there was this kind of continuation of being in shared rooms and seeing each other lead and also experiencing each other's leadership. And I was kind of continually drawn to her for her creativity and her daring way of being in space and sharing space with people. And how she was able to go to this place of vulnerability with people-- with groups of people. I feel like vulnerability is like a very hot word right now and could mean a lot of things, but like where she was able to demonstrate deepness in a way that other people were then able to share their own deepness. And is able to do that, which is very, kind of, fresh for me. I hadn't been in a lot of spaces where people were able to do that. And also, her thoughtfulness was just so transparent in the way that she lets things, but then also how we built things together. We ended up building a lot of workshops together and just so thoughtful, so creative, so bold. All the good things (laughing). So, I'm so grateful to be here now exploring who we are and the many experiences of women. So, thank you for sharing your story and let's listen to it now. 

 

Melinda (voicemail recording): Well, hi there, Emily, and our listeners. This is Melinda and I have the good fortune of being our first official episode. I get to do what we're going to be asking our guests to do, which is to tell us a story. A story that aligns with our season 1 theme which is really about taking a risk. Sort of jumping off and all of the things that taking that risk, of finding our purpose and alignment requires. So, here's my story! 

About a decade ago, just over 10 years ago, I made the decision to move abroad. I had never lived abroad. I had traveled and had the experience of being in other countries and other cultures, but I never had the opportunity to live in another country and to have to navigate what that means in terms of, you know, learning new rules and a new language, a new way of sort of being in the world. And for variety of reasons, I made the decision to move to Chile for an indeterminate amount of time. My goal was to teach English while I was there, and I ultimately did some freelance writing. And, you know, it wasn't about necessarily pushing my career forward. The decision to move there really had more to do with the career I'd already had and recognizing that I spent a year preparing for it financially, socially, and professionally. I was lucky enough that my best friend had said, “Hey, let me go with you and spend the first few days with you while you transition to a new country.” My best friend Janelle and I boarded a plane, we landed in Santiago, Chile and we spent, I don't know, three or four days touring the city and just having a nice time together. And the entire time we were together I think I was just in like pretty deep denial about the fact that at some point this girl vacation would end and she would leave, and I would actually be left in this foreign country, not knowing how to speak the language, or the life I was about to have. But that time came. And it was just really interesting because here I’d spent a year preparing to be in this very circumstance. I spent not just that moment deciding, “Hey, I'm going to do this, and this is where I'm going to go,” but every day for a year I was doing something to prepare for this experience. But it wasn't until that moment, very early in the morning, where I helped Janelle get all of her stuff into a taxi. I watched her step in close the door and slowly drive off and like in a movie, looking out the back window at me and waving that I absolutely was filled with terror. Absolute terror! Because this was the jumping off moment. This was the risk! This was the ‘I'm either going to follow her to airport and go back to the life I know’ or ‘I'm going to get in my own taxi and head to the living arrangements that I had made while I got my certification to teach English.’ And I was terrified. Ultimately that's what I did. I did get in the taxi, and I did go on to live in Chile for almost two years and it was an extraordinary experience. But it also was a jumping off moment-- a risk moment-- that came long after I decided to move there. It came when I realized, “Oh, this is the moment my life actually changes. This is the moment I'm alone in a country by myself having to make it just for me. Just for Melinda. I've got to have my own back here.

 

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Emily: Uh, so good. I love this story because it doesn't give us an end point. It is kind of the middle of your journey. Like you drop us into this one spot. There’s so much before and so much after that it just keeps me wondering what else was there and then like what's next, what's next? But we'll get into that shortly. And that's some of the questions I have for you a little bit. So, my first reaction to this story was how you so clearly named that there wasn't just one moment of jumping off and risk taking but there was so many moments.

 

Melinda: Right.

 

Emily: And it wasn't tidy like it's often so exalted in our culture. Like we always see like beautiful endpoint or this tidy package. But there was many, many pieces. 

 

Melinda: Yeah. You're so right.

 

Emily: And the part where you described Janelle waving and looking at you out of the back of the cab, like you see in movies. It was so vivid and like we see this in movies so much and it got me thinking about movies. And I was thinking about how much does our media prepare us for taking the leap, especially one that is for our own needs and our own purpose? Not a romantic leap. Like what does that look like? And so, I was thinking about it and I was like, does it prepare women? How do they deal with that transition- these huge life transitions and shifts- and what kept coming to my mind was montages. 

 

Melinda: Right (laughing). Which is sort of how my brain works, by the way. I’m a montage memory person where it just like flitters through my mind. Yeah. Gosh! You're bringing up such a really, really, really rich thing, right? I mean from, to the point around, yeah the pivot point, we have this fallacy thinking, right? This, I think, is problematic thinking that these big changes come from a decision point or a pivot moment. And sure, that can happen. I'm not saying that that doesn't happen, but my experience in life and I think the experience I've witnessed in other women's lives is it's an iterative process. Or it’s, you know, a ramping up of maybe challenging circumstances, or a ramping up of something that leads to a moment of change. But then, and I think I sort of related this in the story, honestly the feelings of courageousness and bravery and fear and stress and all of that come after-- right when you're starting to feel the consequences, or you're having to make continued decisions, right? You know, the aftermath of that change, right? And so, it's this idea of like, “Guess what? It doesn't happen with one decision. It happens with the 100 decisions that come after that.” Of how am I going to engage in this choice? How am I going to show up for it? And those are the brave moments, right? Because it's really hard and can be really lonely and also amazing. Like I could have told, you know, literally 25 stories of times where I felt utter and deep joy in the decision that I had made but I just remember that movie moment with Janelle. So, it wasn't the movie moment we see where there's this like pivot decision that happens and the whole movie changes and this woman has this incredible life. That's not accurate. But what was accurate was the moment where she turned around in the cab and just sort of waved through that back window and I my whole body was like a star folding in on itself. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I'm like literally alone here in this foreign country and I can't speak the language and I don't have a job and what am I doing? But I will say no, I don't think I felt prepared by media to do that. I’d want to do like a longer, deeper thought-dive on that because I'm sure there have been a handful of examples of times where I saw story that allowed me to be prepared for doing this. Not for a romantic ends. And that's so accurate, right? Because all the ones I'm thinking of, a man was involved, right? 

 

Emily: Yeah. Or it's like so glitzy. Like, I love a montage. Like when it's getting to a movie when there's a point in a movie where you're like, “Oh a montage is coming,” I like tuck in. I get so excited! I'm like, “There's going to be a good montage.” Because it evokes so much emotion.

 

Melinda: And you get a lot of information in a short amount of time.

 

Emily: And you see their character. They're like (I'm doing the Bunny ears quote) this one part of their character, usually. And I get like sort of teary-eyed and excited a lot of times. The getting made over montage, the athlete in training montage, the study hard montage, the moving into a new house. And like, they show these brief, awkward moments of new clothes on, or dropping all the books that you're studying with. Or, like, the pipes spraying the person in the face as they renovate their old home. But then there's always this end point to it where they like kind of confidently walk into their new life.

 

Melinda: Right! It turns around.

 

Emily: Yeah, but there's this moment where, like, everything's in place. Where they are this different person. This reveal. What was so clear to me in the way you told your story is, like, in life, those montages play out so much slower and the reveal is often less glorified. There's this reveal moment of you standing there boldly alone in this new country but it's not like somebody stops and looks at this woman and is like, “Look at her! What is she doing here?” 

 

Melinda: It's not like I’m throwing my hat in the air. (laughing) Right. Yeah, yeah. And, of course, I couldn't show anybody I was a star folding in on myself. Isn't that the other part, right? I mean I didn't fall into the street in tears. I didn't show how hard it was, which, I think, is a whole different conversation.

 

Emily: I think we're going to get into that a little bit.

 

Melinda: Oh! OK! Yeah, yeah. Because, by the way, I don't know the questions Emily's going to ask me. You would think we would talk about it, but we really wanted to make sure that this was fresh and like I'm responding just like our guests would. So, I don't know what she's going to ask which is exciting! 

I think your point about the montage is such a sweet observation. And, you know, the point of a montage in film is because of time restraints-- to give the audience a lot of information, right? In a way that's really-- not that I'm a filmmaker-- but just in the bit I know, I mean, that's part of its objective. But it does set up, I think, along with other things in society, this idea that when we make a big decision or move in a direction of a big decision, that the the goodness, the outcome, whatever it is, will happen very quickly. We will feel better on the other side of the hard thing.

 

Emily: Yes. Yes.

 

Melinda: Golly. (laughing) You know this, Emily-- the lesson I keep learning is I get to the other side of the hard thing with my hands out expecting all the glory and gold and wonder and sometimes it's just sort of a different version.

 

Emily: Yeah.

 

Melinda: Of life-- and that's OK. Like, I'm getting wiser and more mature and recognizing, oh, I've been set up to some degree to believe that the other side needs to look a certain way in order for it to feel valuable. But what actually I find on the other side is a deeper, richer knowing of myself, right? 

 

Emily: Mmmm! Yeah. 

 

Melinda: So, it's not like I walked out on the other side, and I was Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman now living the high life, you know? 

 

Emily: And it didn't matter what other people thought, it sounds, too?

 

Melinda: Yeah! It was just-- I can do this thing! Which levels me up to take on other things and other types of relationships and other deeper parts of myself that need to be excavated so that ultimately, I am living the fullest best Melinda throughout this life. 

 

Emily: Yeah, well let's talk about that more when we come back together after this short break and dive even deeper into your story together. 

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Melinda: Sounds great!

 

Emily: Alright.

 

BREAK (music) Melinda: Emily and I love supporting causes we believe in and that's what Time to Gather is for us-- something we believe in that connects and celebrates all of us through stories and wild, amazing, everyday women! If you believe in helping support a space like Time to Gather, consider donating to our podcast by visiting our website timetogatherpodcast.com and hitting that donate button. Your donation helps Time to Gather survive and thrive! 

 

Emily: Alright! Welcome back from the break everyone. So, Melinda, you leave us at this story with you getting into the cab and going to your new living space/situation and I'm listening to it I was just like, “And then what?” I want to go through the “and then what,” piece by piece. I want to know. I'm so curious about, like, was there a part of you that wanted to go with her and what kept you there? 

 

Melinda: Hmm. Yeah. (laughing) So the “then what,” by the way, made me laugh because it was like almost two years of everyday moments. You know?

 

Emily: We're going to need a longer podcast! 

 

Melinda: Yeah! A longer podcast and moments of all of it, right? Seriously. I mean, yeah, I wanted to get into the cab and go back and, I mean, what prevented me from doing it is, I mean, I'm not being facetious-- all the things! If I'm being really honest… embarrassment and shame that I would have failed at this thing that I'd spent a year preparing for and preparing my family for. You know how many goodbye parties I went through between friends, family, whatever? And then to, like, not go through with it was not an option. So, yeah there was definitely the pressure-- that social pressure. That failure. You know, fear of failure pressure. So that was certainly a part of the spectrum of feeling and, um, also what is true that I don't think I spend enough time-- I can't speak for other women-- but I don't think I spend enough time lifting this part of the inner voice up, which is, “No Melinda, this is exactly what you're supposed to be doing.”

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Emily: Mmhmmm. The deep knowing?

 

Melinda: Yeah. This aligning with your values. Yeah. This, you know Emily, and I'm sure is going to come up a million times in the podcast-- but literally one of my deepest values and favorite things is discovery, right? And anytime I have an opportunity to do it I am like my best version of Melinda. I'm lighter, I'm funnier, I'm connected. Like I'm like a kid, but a kid with a 48-year-old brain. Like, I'm just in life fully and, so, that's the voice that kept showing up too. “No, you're doing exactly your favorite thing in the whole wide world and it's scary and terrifying and you're alone in this moment. But guess what? You weren’t alone 5 minutes ago when your best friend spent four days with you in a foreign country just so you'd feel a little bit more grounded. That's love. And you're not going to be alone in 15 minutes when you show up at this host family, who's invited you into their home and they're going to help you. That's love.” So all of that kept me from getting into a cab, but everything in between was felt too, right? 

 

Emily: Yeah. So, what were some of the in-between feelings?

 

Melinda: Oh gosh. Um, what were some of the in-between feelings? I don't know. I think it's a bit of a blur because those are sort of the extreme bookends. But curiosity, you know? What is next? And hope, you know? Now that you're asking me that, there was this deep optimism. Sort of going back to what we were talking about prior to the break maybe. A little bit of over-enthusiastic optimism of what I thought would be true, right? What I thought I would come out at the other end being from this experience. So, I think there was that, too. You know, we in life-- and again, I shouldn't say we. In my experience of life I do feel like often-- I hope I'm going to feel OK admitting this-- I've never really thought about it this way. But there is this part of me that's often going toward things because I want them and because I believe in them and because I'm walking away from something else, right? 

 

Emily: Yeah. Yeah. 

 

Melinda: It's not like I'm walking towards something in a complete vacuum. I'm also walking away from something that isn't resonant, isn't working, isn't part of who I am. And I'm walking towards something that is more resonant and is more of who I am, right? So, in that, I think there is this optimism of like, “I have to stay, and I have to keep walking toward this experience because I believe there is going to be something different and better at the end of it.” 

 

Emily: Yeah, this freshness.

 

Melinda: It's a faith statement. You don't know. But what I did know is if I had stayed in the circumstances I left, nothing would be different.

 

Emily:  Yeah. So, you mean like not doing something is a choice.

 

Melinda: Yeah. It's letting life happen, right? Sure, sure. Somebody may have come into my life that was different or maybe I would’ve gotten a promotion at the job I'd had or whatever. Sure, circumstances can shift. But I, you know, sort of wanted to be the captain of my own ship. “What can I do to change my circumstances? How can I proactively move towards those things?” Yeah, and, you know, that is part of the risk is, you know, not knowing and maybe it not always looking like you think it will. But it will be different. That is true. It will be different. 

 

Emily: But it's going to get to be your different. That you choose.

 

Melinda: That I choose, yeah. (laughing)

 

Emily: So what were the two years like in Chile?

 

Melinda: Yeah. They were wonderful. I mean obviously the experience was wonderful and I'm reticent to use that word because it just-- that's what people expect you to say. And it's a sweeping word. I want to unpack it. It was hard. It was really hard. And uncomfortable. And I still have deep and loving friendships from that time that I've continued to cultivate. And I learned an enormous amount about myself and the world. And having that experience-- that lived experience, it helped me do the work I do better. That was one of the objectives that I didn't talk about, but honestly one of the objectives of me moving abroad was that I did want to gain a greater perspective of what it meant to be coming into a culture as an outsider. Because I had at that point spent my career working with students that were in that very circumstance and I'm a highly empathetic person and I could do it well, but I could never do it from a place of true understanding. And so, that was part of my objective in moving to a place where I didn't know the language and didn't really have a lot of connection and all of that. Um. Yeah. And guess what? It's hard to do! FYI: it's difficult. 

 

Emily: So, like being in this new space that some people can choose to be in or not choose to be in, like the students that you're working with, from your experience, what were some of the things that kind of-- I'm imagining this being a very lonely beginning, right? Like you're surrounded by love of your community back home and you know there's the love of this community in front of you, but it's also this like loneliness and total beginning. What were some of the things that helped kind of lift you into community and into what you were needing in that new country, new space?

 

Melinda: Yeah, you know. It's really interesting because the particular way in which I entered the experience, weirdly, gave me community early and so I think the loneliness may have come a little later when I was searching for deeper relationships. 

 

Emily: Yeah.

 

Melinda: And that's when you really recognize, “Oh, I'm an outsider. Like, it's going to take a long time for me to really feel a deep and intimate connection in the same way I would within circles where I speak the same language and understand the cultural rules and all that sort of thing.” And I say I entered it into community early because, yes, after that movie moment with Janelle waving goodbye to me from the taxi, I got into a taxi, and I went to a host of family where I was going live for the first six weeks of my stay in Chile and get my certification to teach English. And so, I immediately dropped into a home. I immediately dropped into a course with other English-speaking folks that were going to be teaching English. So, I met Australians and, you know, Brits, and Americans, and Canadians who are all there doing the same thing. And so, it immediately created a community because it's sort of like summer camp or, you know, boot camp. You're all of a sudden with this group of people going through the same really challenging experience and so you create pretty quick bonds. 

 

Emily: Yeah.

 

Melinda: And so, in that sense I created community right away. It's really interesting though. One of the things that I always think about with my choosing to live abroad and going through that experience is I had gone into it with this set of ideas of what I thought I was going to learn, right? 

 

Emily: Yeah.

 

Melinda: “I’m going to become an excellent Spanish speaker! I'm going to, you know, do this, I'm going to do that!” Like I had all of these goals, essentially, and I wound up coming out of the experience having gained a lot, but it wasn't what I thought it would be.

 

Emily: What did you gain?

 

Melinda: I gained just a really different perspective on what it means to move away from what you know. So now, when I think about refugees-- now when I think about people who choose to leave their home countries for quote, unquote “a better life,” -- for more opportunity-- what that looks like and feels like, the disconnection from family, culture, holidays, experiences-- it's just so significant. And the bravery it takes. The courage it takes. And guess what? I always had the option to go home. 

 

Emily: Yeah.

 

Melinda: And so many people don't.

 

Emily: Yeah.

 

Melinda: I've met so many folks who made the decision to move to the United States so that they could support their families back home and they haven't seen their families in 15 years, 20 years because they can't afford to go back or they don't have the ability, politically or whatever it might be, to go back. And I always did, right? So, golly. When I say that my empathy grew, it's no joke. Like, it was just this deep understanding but also I was able to really get stronger context around the comfort of community once you are living in a foreign country, right? So, as an American growing up, I observed, you know, that there were collections and communities and collectives of people of the same ethnic background or, you know, from the same part of the world, or spoke the same language. I recognize that on a surface level that like attracts like. You want to be around people who know your language, or whatever. But now, having lived outside of the country and being in a situation where I was one of a handful of English speakers in a Spanish speaking world and didn't speak Spanish. Was learning! I understood it's so much deeper than comfort, right? It's identity. It's about feeling seen and understood and like, “Oh, I know the rules of this group of people. I'm learning the rules of this other group and I keep getting it really wrong.” 

 

Emily: Yeah.

 

Melinda: And that's a hard place to sit 24/7. 

 

Emily: So hard!

 

Melinda: Like even the most adventurous of us. You know? I am so willing to be wrong, but to be wrong constantly through language and social and cultural rules, yeah. There's a deep hunger to get back to your tribe and be like, “Oh, you guys get me!” Right? And, so, I think that was a deeper understanding that I got. Again, going to Chile, I never would have thought to myself, “I'm going to have a better understanding of intercultural experiences, or whatever. Yeah, but deep understanding in a way that was really, really valuable to me. 

 

Emily: A sense of belonging. Like, no matter where we go, that's such a part of it.

 

Melinda: Yeah. How can we have both grace for those in our community that feel the need to stay connected to people from their own backgrounds, cultures, etcetera, right, and not see that as a threat? I think people often see that as a threat. And, also, how do we hold space both for people wanting to stay within their community and stay connected in that way and help them feel included and welcome. That they belong outside of that community, right? That’s something I strive for. 

 

Emily: Yeah. To work towards that shared humanity where we can all connect in that kind of way while recognizing the differences in each other and the deep value… and richness in that.

 

BREAK (music) Melinda: Hi all! While we’re taking a break, let me tell you about some other ways to connect with Time to Gather. You can find more episodes, resources, and more on our website timetogatherpodcast.com. And don’t forget to connect with us on social. Find out the latest podcast news, preview new episodes, connect with other listeners and get to know your hosts, Melinda and Emily through our regular posts. You can find the Time to Gather podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

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Emily: What I feel like you've been speaking to is how taking this risk brought you closer to yourself in many ways. There's this one point in your story where you talk about how other people have seen braveness in you or you've seen braveness in yourself and kind of expressing these accolades that may or may not feel true. Like the accolades might not fit. But what in this risk and this jump-- what are your own accolades for yourself? What are you most proud of in this series of moments-- moving across the world?

 

Melinda: Ohhh. You're pushing on such a hard thing and I'm so glad you are because we need to be asking women this question more. Because it's hard for us, I think, to think about what we're proud of. Yeah. I think something that I'm working on is to not necessarily focus on the things I've done that I'm proud of, but the times when I've allowed myself to be the most genuine Melinda. And you sort of spoke to that in my bio which was so lovely and gracious and thank you for that. That you know I tend to show up to spaces vulnerable-- and I love it by the way you also called out vulnerably as a hot word because I do feel this little twinge of like, “Oh, we’re using the word vulnerable!” But you know, for me, I think one of the best things I bring to the world is a legit genuineness, in that, I joke a lot about being a strawberry, right? All my seeds are on the outside. You know what you're going to get. But that is not an easy fruit to be in the world. It's just not. And people often have discomfort around genuineness because we don't give people permission to show who they really are. We often are feeling that need to like fit into what we're supposed to be, or supposed to say, or you know how to be professional, how to be a woman, how to be whatever it might be and so, I guess I would say, to answer your question, when I think about what I'm most proud of in that experience, it's not really moments, because there were good moments and there were moments I wasn't proud of myself where I had you know breakdowns or frustrations or whatever. My filters were low, and I was cranky or whatever. But it was, I think, my willingness to keep just showing up, truly curious, truly caring, truly genuine. Like, “This is who I am. I'm not pretending to be anything. I am this middle-aged, white, American woman trying something really different and I'm going to be messy and funny and weird to a lot of people that meet me here and I'm OK with all of that.” like I'm really proud of that.

 

Emily: Your authenticity. Your you.

 

Melinda: Yeah. And I also want to note, too. Like we talked about being a perennial and sort of the intergenerational stuff and the beauty of our intergenerational relationship and this show. That was also a part that I haven't really spoken to, but I went to Chile I was 37 years old. In other words, I was easily 10 years older than everybody else I was teaching English with because so many people do this either as a gap year between high school and college or after college before they get into the working world. So, a lot of folks that were my coworkers were like 24, 25 years old and I was easily a decade over. I mean, you know, my peers were deep in family life and their professional lives, and I was taking a step away from all of that to have this experience. And so the pressure was high to fit in in certain ways, right? And to be something, or at least be perceived as something, I really wasn't. So, the fact that I could show up as my genuine self is like as I said, this middle-aged woman, taking a self-imposed sabbatical to live in Chile for a couple of years, I think was brave, you know? 

 

Emily: Oh gosh, yeah. 

 

Melinda: (laughing) I'm going to call it brave. You know, we'll see, we'll see. 

 

Emily: Wildly brave. 

 

Melinda: I think it was brave. So, I think that's what I'm probably proud of. Is just, yeah, my tenacity and sticking with the thing. Yeah, and showing up as my real self. 

 

Emily: Yeah. I refuse to accept the fact that 37 is middle-aged. 

 

Melinda: (laughing) Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Now that I’m 48, I would agree with you, bug time. Yeah. (laughing)

 

Emily: (laughing) I love that you separate this achieving of stuff and the living of truth as different ways of being proud of yourself and different ways of measuring your own self-worth, self-success, self-accolade. All of those pieces. It’s such an important differentiation and that living of truth, time and time again we just keep learning about how that what matters most in all of our growth, all of our experience of this world, preventing loneliness, you know, all of this connection. How did you stay grounded in that? I mean you're in this completely new experience where it'd be so easy to contort yourself to the culture you were in, or the 20 something year old or you're hanging out with. What were some of the ways that helped motivate you and connect you to keep showing up as your true self, your authentic self?

 

Melinda: Yeah. It's a great question. You know, I would almost say-- I just didn't feel like there was any other option to be, because it was so hard already to be in a place where I didn't necessarily fit in, and I didn't know how to navigate, right? So, when I say there were daily decisions, I mean there were daily, there were daily moments, of feeling nervous, or scared, or uncertain, or lost. Literally! You know, I'm having to find a new student and having to navigate a subway system of a city of 6 million people, right? This is not a small place. Yeah, in Spanish, by the way-- that I was learning! And Chilean Spanish, Chilean Spanish speakers speak in a slang called Chilenismos-- it's like a slang style. It's not formal Spanish. So, I'm learning formal Spanish in my class but I'm trying to navigate the, you know, street Spanish in Santiago and it feels like a different language, you know? So, everything, from ordering a sandwich to finding my class to, you know, whatever, is exhausting. So, to some degree, it was probably out of default. Like I couldn't show up as anything other than myself because I just didn't have the capacity to put on airs or, you know, stay out late with like the early 20-somethings to drink too much, you know? I mean, I didn't have that in me because I was just trying to survive this really challenging and beautiful experience. And yeah, I want to note the beauty, right? I was also just trying to enjoy it. So, it wasn't all hardship, but it was, you know, also the beauty of it. 

I think, too, part of the sustainability for me in that experience, and I would say other experiences that I feel like I've been in sort of longer multi-level risk taking experiences, sort of comes back for me to the idea of regret, right? I think there is some regret in life that is inevitable.

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Emily: Absolutely!

 

Melinda: Yeah, you know, we just don't know what we don't know. And things happen and choices are made. And I think we also are empowered to make choices and decisions that put us at the edge of our comfort zone all the time and when we step across that line into the unknown, we are offered so much beauty and opportunity. Again, it's so important for me to recognize-- and fear, and stress, and these things come, too. We can't pretend they don't. You have to hold both. And that's what people are often trying to avoid. But if we just recognize, “I'm going to hold in one hand the fear and the stress and the worry and the unknown, but, on the other hand, I’ll be holding all of this gorgeousness, all of this opportunity, all of this growth and beauty. It feels easier to hold it. So, once we step across that line we are in a situation where we have more opportunity. And so, when I say regret, I often think about-- and this has literally been a quote that has been hanging in my world either digitally or on the wall or on a phone, or whatever, for really long time. And it's a Mark Twain quote that I want to share that inspired me during that time. And certainly, inspired me before I was leaving. The quote reads:

“Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails—explore, dream, discover.”

 

Emily: Mmmm. Yes!

 

Melinda: And that really is true! Like when we say, “I'm going to do the hard thing. I'm going to go and feel the fear and feel the things that I've been avoiding. I'm going to sail away from that safe harbor,” you get to new territory, you get to new experiences, you get to new people, and you get to new parts of who you are. And so, that helped my sustainability, too. I had that, again, that deep faith statement that I'm heading toward something. 

 

Emily: Yeah. The fact that you have that quote that has been coming up for you throughout these jumping off points of life is hilarious and helps make more sense of why we are both jumper-offers, because I have that quote too.

 

Melinda: What!

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Emily: Just much more succinctly by my high school history teacher. I don't know if he was-- I don't think he was referencing Mark Twain, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was. Or if he got it there. Mr. Johnson, I don't know where you got it from, but it changed my life forever. I was talking to him about something after class one day and he said, “You know.” And he was like the football coach, too, so in this gruff way. “You know, the things I regret most in life are the things I didn't do.” And that changed my world and I have come back to that so many times when I'm thinking about taking the leap and jumping off and I'm so grateful for you reminding me of that. 

 

Melinda: Mmm hmmmmm.

 

Emily: Yeah. It's really the things we regret most are likely going to be the things we didn't do, or the ways we didn't show up with our own authenticity. I love that you touched on that. Like the most sustainable way for you to experience this was to just be yourself. That's not our default a lot of times but so true. As we wrap up, I'm curious. What you what would you tell yourself if you went back into that moment that you're standing there, watching Janelle wave from the back of a taxicab, and you're starting to feel like a collapsed star but can't show that to anybody else around you. What would you tell yourself in that moment?

 

Melinda: I mean it sounds trite, maybe, but I would start by saying it's going to be OK. You're going to be OK.

 

Emily: Not trite at all.

 

Melinda: (laughing) Oh good! but I really think that's the thing that oftentimes I need to hear the most. It's so easy for me to, you know, to spin out in my own mind and to go to all the places, and, um, and just to have that that inner wise woman do some self-soothing. To remind myself, “You're going to be OK. You are so capable of this. And, yeah, it's going to be hard, but you really do have this. So pick up that right foot, pick up the left foot, put both of them in a cab, and head on your way.” Which ultimately, I did. It would have been nicer to hear that in my own mind. It was a little more chaotic getting my feet into that cab, but I will say too-- this is so aside, but it probably bode well that my experience was going to be positive when I wasn't 3 minutes into the cab heading to my host family when we got to this major intersection in the city. I mean like a six main major street intersection. And in Santiago, like many places, there are like a ton of street dogs. Like a ton of street dogs. 

 

Emily: (whimpers)

 

Melinda: But they're well taken care of. In particular in Santiago. 

 

Emily: OK.

 

Melinda: Like a lot of street vendors and stuff take care of them. And in the winter, you'll even see a lot of them have, like, little vests and jackets on!

 

Emily: Oh my gosh! Yes!

 

Melinda: Yeah. I've got pictures, Emily. I will share with you. It's amazing! But I remember this was summertime and I remember pulling up to this intersection and seeing this huge group of people waiting at one of those like pedestrian lights to cross this massive intersection. And in the middle of this group of people was this huge street dog. And there he was waiting with the people and when the light turned green, the dog walked with the people across the street to the next part of the intersection. And so, the dogs had, of course, had evolved to work within this urban experience, and follow new prompts, so that they stayed safe. And I was like, wow, there's a metaphor in that, first of all!

Emily: (laughing) If that dog can do it, I can do it!

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Melinda: Seriously! (laughing) So it's a little bit of an aside, but it was also a good moment at the very start of this really scary experience watching this dog adapt, right? And it was thriving, and it was fine and it was healthy and it was among things that were really different from him—people-- and he was doing just fine. Yeah, so that helped a lot, too. (laughing)

 

Emily: Uh! OK. Thank you, Melinda. Thank you all so much. You're all going to be OK and when in doubt, do you like the dogs do. Maybe we'll be more like dogs in this world. (laughing)

 

Melinda: (laughing) That’s right. Thank you so much for listening to my story. This has been fun.

 

Emily: Yeah. It's been really fun. Thank you for kicking us off and being boldly, and bravely, and vulnerable, and creatively, and again, all the things to be the one to kind of break the seal and start this new journey for us as we take this risk into podcasting together.

 

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Melinda: Thank you for taking the time to gather with us today. Keep our connection strong by visiting us at timetogatherpodcast.com or by following the Time to Gather podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. We would love to hear from you. What resonated today? What are your stories? What risks have you taken?

 

Emily: We love connecting with you and doing this work. Head over to our website and hit the donate button to help keep the stories coming. We're a grassroots, low-fi effort and your support is both needed and appreciated. Thank you and we can't wait to gather with you again.

 

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